On X, Tucker Carlson hosts ‘historian’ who says the Nazis didn’t mean for the Holocaust to happen
The conversation with Darryl Cooper was praised by Elon Musk as others called it “pro-Nazi propaganda”
Darryl Cooper (left) is interviewed by Tucker Carlson on an episode of Carlson’s show on X, Sept. 2, 2024. Cooper, a self-proclaimed “historian,” argues that Hitler and the Nazis didn’t intend for the Holocaust to happen. (Screenshot)
(JTA) — Right-wing pundit Tucker Carlson used the latest episode of his online talk show to interview a self-proclaimed “historian” who promoted falsehoods about the Holocaust.
The episode of Carlson’s eponymous show on the social network X earned plaudits from the site’s billionaire owner, Elon Musk, who wrote in a since-deleted post that it was “Very interesting. Worth watching.”
In the interview, Darryl Cooper, author of a Substack with around 112,000 subscribers, told Carlson that the Nazis were simply in over their heads.
“In 1941, they launched a war where they were completely unprepared to deal with the millions and millions of prisoners of war, of local political prisoners,” he said during the 138-minute conversation. Cooper then suggested that the murders of millions in the camps was an unintended consequence of Hitler’s unpreparedness for war, rather than the documented historical fact that it was the explicit goal of the Nazi regime’s Final Solution and carried out through a vast system of mass murder that included extermination camps, gas chambers, military units dedicated to mass executions and firing squads.
“They went in with no plan for that and they just threw these people into camps. And millions of people ended up dead there,” Cooper told Carlson on the episode, which was posted on Monday. It was part of a larger argument Cooper made that British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, rather than Hitler, was the “chief villain” of World War II because “he was primarily responsible for that war becoming what it did, becoming something other than an invasion of Poland.”
Later, Cooper suggested that Britain’s entry into the war was motivated ”by people, the financiers, by a media complex, that wanted to make sure [Churchill] was the guy who was representing Britain in that conflict for a reason.” He also postulated that Churchill’s embrace of Zionism benefited him financially: “You read stories about Churchill going bankrupt and needing money, getting bailed out by people who shared his interests in terms of Zionism,” he said.
Cooper has a long history of promoting a skewed perspective on Hitler and World War II that has the effect of minimizing Nazi atrocities, including a since-deleted tweet where he said an image of Hitler arriving in Nazi-occupied Paris was “infinitely preferable in every way” to an image from the recent Paris Olympics opening ceremony of drag queens reenacting the Last Supper.
His interview with Carlson — whose X account has more than 13.7 million followers, compared to around 251,000 for Cooper’s own account, Martyr Made — gave his views a massive platform. Carlson did not push back on Cooper’s Holocaust claims and praised him repeatedly, telling him, “I think you are the most important popular historian working in the United States today.”
Later, he endorsed Cooper’s claims. “People can certainly take issue with any factual claims you’re making. I assume they’re all right,” Carlson said. “They’re consistent with what I think I know to be true.”
It was also the latest in the former Fox News host’s record of echoing antisemitic and white nationalist rhetoric. Examples include his platforming of the “Great Replacement” idea, which often places Jews at the center of a conspiracy to replace white voters with brown-skinned immigrants, and aligning with right-wing pundit Candace Owens, who has increasingly spread antisemitic ideas.
On another recent episode of his show Carlson welcomed country music star John Rich, who shared conspiracy theories during the interview about the wealthy Jewish banking family the Rothschilds. Carlson has also hosted Andrew Tate, the misogynist influencer who has been indicted for rape and sex trafficking, and has posted antisemitic rhetoric online.
Carlson continues to exert considerable influence on the right even after being fired from Fox News last year. He had a prime speaking role at the Republican National Convention this summer, and will be hosting several live shows prior to the election, including one with Republican vice presidential nominee J.D. Vance and another with Donald Trump Jr. Other guests include Alex Jones and Georgia Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene — both of whom have spread antisemitic rhetoric.
On Carlson’s show, Cooper also claimed he has received praise from Jews and Israelis over his own published interpretation of the history of Zionism and the founding of Israel, which he said he tackled after reading “six books on the topic.” Carlson is a leading critic on the right of Israel and its post-Oct. 7 military campaign in Gaza, arguing that it has unfairly targeted Palestinian Christians.
But Jewish groups were hardly singing Cooper’s praises after his appearance. In a post on X, the Anti-Defamation League called him a “Nazi apologist” and said Carlson’s praise of him “is an insult to the memory of the 6,000,000 Jews who were murdered by Hitler’s Nazi regime.”
Appearing on Israeli television network i24, ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt called Carlson “an extremely problematic individual who’s been peddling antisemitism along with other forms of racism and bigotry for many years, so it’s not surprising that he platformed this Holocaust denier.” The ADL has long had its sights on Carlson, having called for him to be fired from Fox and celebrating when the network dropped him.
“Although the Nazi party, the Third Reich, might not have had plans for everything, the one thing they did have was a plan for the Jews,” Greenblatt continued. “It was called the Final Solution.”
The episode was lambasted by many others on the platform, including former Republican Rep. Liz Cheney, who called it “pro-Nazi propaganda.” But Musk, whose platform Carlson chose to mount his own show after he was fired from Fox, saw the conversation as a good thing.
Along with the deleted post calling the episode “worth watching,” Musk cited it as a successful example of his stated desire to promote “free speech” on the platform. Responding to a user who called Cooper a “charlatan” and “unbelievably misinformed,” and who promised to debunk him more fully at a later date, Musk wrote, “What’s great about this platform is that you can.”
Musk has come under fire for frequently engaging with neo-Nazis and white supremacists on X since his 2022 purchase of the site, even as he has sought to ally himself with pro-Israel causes and had a prominent seat behind rescued hostages at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s recent address to Congress.
Discussing the Cooper interview, Greenblatt had some mild critiques of Musk. The ADL leader has praised Musk in the past despite the mogul’s history of platforming antisemitism and even agreeing with antisemitic sentiments himself.
“It is very hard to intuit what Elon is thinking,” Greenblatt said on i24 Tuesday. “I’m glad that he took down the tweet, but it’s wrong, I believe, to platform not just people like Darryl Cooper saying such disgusting, vile antisemitism, but amplifying people like Tucker Carlson.”
A message from our CEO & publisher Rachel Fishman Feddersen
I hope you appreciated this article. Before you go, I’d like to ask you to please support the Forward’s award-winning, nonprofit journalism during this critical time.
At a time when other newsrooms are closing or cutting back, the Forward has removed its paywall and invested additional resources to report on the ground from Israel and around the U.S. on the impact of the war, rising antisemitism and polarized discourse..
Readers like you make it all possible. Support our work by becoming a Forward Member and connect with our journalism and your community.
— Rachel Fishman Feddersen, Publisher and CEO
